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Post by BroRando on Jan 18, 2022 3:54:42 GMT -5
The truth about John 1:1 has been long hidden from the masses. Why is learning this scripture vital to your spiritual health? Because words matter! In Greek there are two different words for God. Also, using a definite article emphasizes the subject spoken about. First instance is ton theon which means the God and the second instance is theos which means a god.
Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος reads
En archí ín o lógos, kaí o lógos ín prós tón theón, kaí theós ín o lógos
Word for Word translation of Koine Greek:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word.”
Jesus is never referred to as the theon because Jesus was begotten and came into existence. Therefore, the Apostle John used the nominative title theos which means a god referring to the Word's divinity and godlike qualities.
- 1975 "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word" – Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany
- 1978: "and godlike sort was the Logos" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin
Other languages use the indefinite article but Koine Greek in the first century did not. That is the very reason why two different forms of Greek words were used by the Apostle John, ton theon and theos. Read More...
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Post by pierac on Feb 14, 2022 13:30:57 GMT -5
I have another train of thought for you think about. Is what you're reading into John 1 mostly church tradition? For almost 400 years, we have a read John 1 through the eyes of the Catholic Church. (reinforcing the Trinity). In the New Testament, “the Word” (Logos) happens to be of the masculine gender. Therefore, it's pronoun -"he" in our English translations - is a matter of interpretation, not translation. Did John write concerning “the word” that “he” was in the beginning with God or did he write concerning “the word” that “it” was in the beginning with God? As already stated, in the NT Greek the logos or word is masculine noun. It is okay in English to use “he” to refer back to his masculine noun if there is good contextual reason to do so. But is there good reason to make “the word” a “he” here?
It is a fact that all English translations from the Greek before the King James version of 1611 actually read this way: (notice Him and He are now “It”).
Tyndale 1534:
Joh 1:1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God. 2 The same was in the beginnynge with God. 3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made. 4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men
Cranmer 1539
John 1:1 IN the begynnynge was the worde and the worde was wyth God: and God was the worde. 2 The same was in the begynnyng with God. 3 All thynges were made by it and without it, was made nothynge that was made. 4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was the lyght of men
Bishops 1568:
Joh 1:1 In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God. 2 The same was in the begynnyng with God. 3 All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made. 4 In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men,
Geneva 1587:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. 2 This same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made. 4 In it was life, and that life was the light of men.
And now our modern Concordant Literal Version:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. " 2 This was in the beginning toward God. 3 All came into being through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into being which has come into being." 4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men."
The word logos appears many, many more times in this very Gospel of John. And nowhere else do the translators capitalize it or use the masculine personal pronoun "he" to agree with it !
The rest of the New Testament is the same. Logos is variously translated as "statement" (Luke 20:20), “question" (Matt 21:24), "preaching" (1 Tim 5:17), "command" (Gal 5:14), message" (Luke 4:32), "matter" (Acts 15:6), "reason" (Acts 10:29), so there is actually no reason to make John one say that "the Word" is the person Jesus himself, unless of course the translators are wanting to make a point to. In all cases logos is an “it.”
In the light of this background it is far better to read John's prologue to mean that in the beginning God had a plan, a dream, a grand vision for the world, a reason by which He brought all things into being. This word or plan was expressive of who he is.
"The Word" for John is an “it” not a "he." On one occasion, Jesus is given the name "the word of God" and this is in Revelations 19:13. This name has been given to him after his resurrection and ascension, but we will not find it before his birth. It is not until we come to verse 14 of John's prologue that this logos becomes personal and becomes the son of God, Jesus. "And the Word became flesh." A great plan that God had in his heart from before the creation at last is fulfilled. Be very clear that it does not say that God became flesh.
There is even strong evidence suggesting that John himself reacted to those who were already misusing his gospel to mean that Jesus was himself the Word who had personally preexist the world. When later he wrote his introduction to 1 John, he clearly made the point that what was in the beginning was not a “who” he put it this way: "What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we beheld and our hands handled, concerning the word of life…"
Logos - This word is translated in English as "Word". This word has an actual meaning which has been almost completely lost due to the Greek philosophical interpretation of John 1:1-3 & 14.
who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. (Rev 1:2)
"I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word (logos) of God." (Rev 20:4)
Notice that they were beheaded for their testimony to Jesus AND for the logos of God. Jesus and the word of God are not the same thing.
John 12:48 "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one (God) who judges him; the word (logos) I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
Again… Jesus spoke the Logos, as He is not the Logos! So who is the Logos? The very next verse tell us!
Joh 12:49 "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
Jesus is not our Judge, but our savior!
Joh 3:17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
Act 17:30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31 because He ( God) has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."
Word of God in this verse means God's plan of salvation for us (NAB), i.e. the kingdom
of God message. So what does "logos" mean?
Logos - 1. Denotes an internal reasoning process, plan, or intention, as well as an
external word. 2. The expression of thought. As embodying a conception or idea (New
American Bible (footnote) & Vine’s Expository Dictionary).
According to Liddell and Scott Greek Lexicon, it also means:
Logos - the inward thought which is expressed in the spoken word.
I will give you a brief paraphrase of John 1:1-3 using the definitions for "logos:"
"In the beginning was God's plan, will, or idea for our salvation. It was present in his mind, and God's plan or will possessed all the attributes of God."
The very Trinitarian Roman Catholic New American Bible has this comment on this verse:
"Lack of a definite article with "God" in Greek signifies predication rather than identification."
Predication - to affirm as a quality or attribute (Webster's Dictionary).
So how does the Word (logos) become flesh in John 1:14? Let me use an example which most of us can relate to. We are all familiar with the expression, "was this baby planned?" Let's say it was planned. You and your wife had a plan to have a baby. You had a logos, a plan. Your plan (logos) became flesh the day that your baby was born. In the same way, God's plan of salvation for us became a reality, became flesh, when Jesus was born. This verse is probably one of the biggest culprits in the creation of the trinity. The reason being that to someone educated in Greek philosophy such as the early church fathers of the 3rd, 4th, and 5th, centuries, logos had an entirely different meaning. Tertullian who was responsible for much of the creation of the trinity was a Stoic lawyer. The Stoics defined "logos" as the "divine principle of life." Which is basically a definition of God. With this definition you are going to arrive at a completely different interpretation than what John intended. You will interpret it something like this:
"In the beginning was the divine principle of life, and the divine principle of life was with God, and the divine principle of life was God. Then, the divine principle of life became flesh."
With this definition you arrive at the conclusion that the divine principle of life, which is God, became flesh. Now you have God's essence in two places at once. The explanation for this obvious problem came in the form of the Doctrine of the Trinity. Then you have God's essence in flesh, so the description of Jesus becomes that he is fully God and fully man. These concepts come straight out of Greek philosophy. Greek philosophers believed that man was composed of flesh and a divine spark.
John 12:48 "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges
him; the word ( logos ) I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
Again… Jesus spoke the Logos, He is not the Logos!
1Jn 1:1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life-- 2 and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us--
What does scripture teach you about... What was from the beginning?
Pay attention as we need to get a little deeper comparing both John 1:1 with 1 John 1:1
John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word." 1 John 1:1 – "What was from the beginning, what we have heard."
Notice that in John what is from the beginning is the word, and in 1 John what is from the beginning is something that they heard (a message) .
Look closely...
1 John 2:7 - "Beloved, I am writing no new commandment to you but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard."
In 1 John 1:1 what was from the beginning is something that they heard, here in 1 John 2:7 the old commandment is what they have had from the beginning, (sound familiar?) and the old commandment is the "WORD" that they what? Heard! The same as in 1 John 1:1.
So, What commandment is John speaking about?
John is speaking about what Jesus called the greatest commandment, ( Mark 12:29-30 ) the commandment of love which God gave the Hebrews from the beginning. The message of love that the proclamation of the Kingdom of God brings with it.
How do we know for sure that this is the message and/or the commandment that they heard from the beginning? Because John tells you so in 1 John 3:11 and 1 John 3:23:
"For this is the message you have HEARD from the BEGINNING: we should love one another."
"And his commandment is this: we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another."
Loving one another is how the world will know that we are followers of God’s Christ.
John 13:30 – "This is how all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."
According to Paul (Romans 13:9), the law of love is the fulfillment of the Mosaic Law and it is the Law in the coming Kingdom of God which the Messiah has come to proclaim. These are Jesus’ own words.
John is talking about the message or Logos (known by you as “word”!)
By making John 1 a Trinity support verse, they lose so much truth!
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Post by BroRando on Feb 16, 2022 22:21:05 GMT -5
Nice and well thought out article. Also, there are plenty of feminine nouns that give us witness about Jesus. Not that he was a female but rather that he was a creation. The use of a feminine noun emphasizes the fact that the Word was created. When? "In the Beginning was the Word" ( John 1:1) Words such as godlike, wisdom, grace, divinity, or deity are all in the feminine sense. Strong's Concordance: arché: beginning, origin
Original Word: ἀρχή, ῆς, ἡ Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: arché Phonetic Spelling: (ar-khay') Short Definition: ruler, beginning
Definition: (a) rule (kingly or magisterial), (b) plur: in a quasi-personal sense, almost: rulers, magistrates, (c) beginning. HELPS Word-studies 746 arxḗ – properly, from the beginning (temporal sense), i.e."the initial (starting) point"; (figuratively) what comes first and therefore is chief(foremost), i.e. has the priority because ahead of the rest ("preeminent").
Jesus is preeminent is he not? "He is the image of the invisible God, the Firstborn of All Creation;" ( Colossians 1:15) Strong's Concordance ktisis: creation (the act or the product)
Original Word: κτίσις, εως, ἡ Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: ktisis Phonetic Spelling: (ktis'-is) Short Definition: creation, creature, institution Definition: (often of the founding of a city), (a) abstr: creation, (b) concr: creation, creature, institution; always of Divine work, (c) an institution, ordinance. HELPS Word-studies Cognate: 2937 ktísis – properly, creation (creature) which is founded from nothing (this is also the sense of this term from Homer on); creation out of nothing Wisdom can be spoken of in the neuter sense (it) or in the feminine sense (SHE) as in being brought forth as through labor pains. "Jehovah produced me as the Beginning of his way, The earliest of his achievements of long ago. From ancient times I was installed, From the start, from times earlier than the earth. When there were no deep waters, I was brought forth, When there were no springs overflowing with water." ( Proverbs 8:22-24) If Jesus was brought forth, begotten, then at one time he was not. In a debate with a modalist, Tertullian stated that some say the rendering of (Genesis 1:1) should read "In the beginning God created for himself a Son." The Bible even states that " Christ is the Wisdom of God." ( 1 Corinthians 1:24) Strong's Concordance sophia: skill, wisdom
Original Word: σοφία, ας, ἡ Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: sophia Phonetic Spelling: (sof-ee'-ah) Short Definition: wisdom Definition: wisdom, insight, skill (human or divine), intelligence.
Look up the word Deity.
Strong's Concordance theotés: deity Original Word: θεότης, ητος, ἡ Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: theotés Phonetic Spelling: (theh-ot'-ace) Short Definition: deity, Godhead
Definition: deity, Godhead.
Jehovah' Witnesses certainly do believe in the Deity of Christ. The Godhead is a divine arrangement of authority given to others. (Jesus, Paul, Moses) "Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “ All authority has been Given me in heaven and on the earth." ( Matthew 28:18)
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Post by setst777 on Mar 24, 2023 5:13:55 GMT -5
In "Colossians 1:15," the word "firstborn" never means first-created, nor does this word only mean being born first, because it carries the meaning of inheriting firstborn rights, and not necessarily that the son was born first at all.
God ordained and appointed as "firstborn" (a position of preeminence) those who were not born first, and these persons foreshadowed Christ (who is the promised "Son of David" in the flesh: Acts 2:29-33) who would come later as creation’s Firstborn (Heir).
Acts 2:29-33 (WEB) 29 “Brothers, I may tell you freely of the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, he would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he foreseeing this spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that his soul wasn’t left in Hades, and his flesh didn’t see decay. 32 This Jesus God raised up, to which we all are witnesses. 33 Being therefore exalted by the right hand of God
Clearly God has the authority to appoint whom he chooses to be firstborn - inheriting the rights of firstborn.
• Isaac over Ishmael (Genesis 21:12; Hebrews 12:16-17), • Israel over all other nations (Exodus 4:22), • Jacob over Esau (Genesis 25:23), • Joseph over Reuben (Genesis 49:3-4; 1 Chronicles 5:1), • Ephraim over Manasseh (Genesis 48:14-20; Jeremiah 31:9), • Gideon over his brothers, but not specifically called “firstborn” (Judges 6:11-16), • David over his brothers (Psalms 89:27; 1 Samuel 16).
When God elects and appoints someone, or a nation, to be firstborn, this has nothing to do with creating or being born first; rather, “firstborn” in that sense means one whom God has given the right of the firstborn to be preeminent over all the others. That is what Colossians 1:15 is referring to when Lord Jesus is called “firstborn." He is creation's heir (Hebrews 1:2).
Colossians 1:15 (WEB) 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the {{{firstborn}}} {{of all creation.}}
Hebrews 1:2 (WEB) 2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed {{heir}} {{of all things}}
“Firstborn” and “heir” are synonymous terms within the context. These two verses parallel each other in meaning; in that, “firstborn” is understood to mean “heir,” or “preeminent one” of all things, just as God similarly appointed the nation Israel, or Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Ephraim, and David as “firstborn.” Lord Jesus, as the Son of David, is appointed by God as creation’s “firstborn” or “heir,” meaning: the incarnate Logos, as a man, inherits firstborn rights, being creations’ “authority” or “ruler.” (Luke 1:30-33; Acts 2:30-32; Psalms 89:33-37; Isaiah 9:6-8; etc.)
In fact, the reasons Lord Jesus is the "firstborn" is clearly understood in the verses that follow "Colossians 1:15," and all of these reasons have to do with preeminence, being first in all things, and by him all things were created and are sustained.
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